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Started: Monday, July 12, 2004 19:31

Finished: Monday, July 12, 2004 20:10

Sunday, I spent the bulk of the afternoon installing Gentoo on Argo. By 22:00, I had completed a stage 1 install, had X running in a way superficially looked altogether too identical to my old setup (due to the fact /home had remained untouched), and left mozilla compiling. Though far from complete, this would at least leave me a minimal setup from which I could at least do something resembling "work" the next day, so I decided to call it good.

As of a few minutes ago, I got postgresql working. It was a little bit trickier, due to the fact that a simple "emerge postgresql" didn't quite do everything that was needed in order to get it into a run-able state, and I couldn't find any official gentoo documentation on what it wanted. When I went googling, I did find a page on another random site that listed the magical ebuild incantations required (slightly erroniously, but close enough for me to figure it out from there).

After that, getting it to take my dump was a fairly simple matter, and a cursory examination of my tables looked good. Installing the perl dbi libs was a snap, so here I am, once again typing away...

I still do not have apache installed at all, nor do I have exim configured (I did compile it though). I'll get to those soon enough.

Initial impressions: I absolutely love the fact that the install cd boots you directly into a root prompt, and from there, you can pretty much do the install in whatever manner you want. There is nothing that even resembles annoying "wizards". It's all command line. Yeah, baby.

Their step by step install and configuration guides (where provided) are very concise and well written. This made the install process very easy (most of my time was spent waiting for things to compile). Because of this, despite it being command-line driven, I'm almost tempted to say it's easy enough that "Any idiot could do it", provided they are able to follow simple, step by step instructions.

(I did use rygel with a web browser open to the install guide on a second monitor, which probably made it all the more convenient in my case.)

The documentation that exists for gentoo is excellent. The areas where documentation does not exist (so far, postgres and exim), for someone not quite familiar with the gentoo way of doing things, become a game of guess and google.

Their init scripts are somewhat confounding, due to the fact that they run from a shell all their own (#!/sbin/runscript, and no, it's not a script, but an elf binary) which apparently also provides environment variables, the origins of which I still haven't quite determined. It's a novel way of doing things. I suspect I might like it once I figure it out a little bit more.

Most favorite gentoo-ism so far: USE flags. Absolutely heavenly.

In other news, this morning I went to the Driver's License office, where I waited in a horrendously long line to update my address (yeah, I never bothered to do it, even though that was over a year and a half ago), and more importantly, my votor registration. As of today, I am now a member of the Democratic Party. Though it's far from perfect, I'd like to think that maybe if more people like me joined (and vote for Mike Miles in the Senate, plug plug), it might get a little better.

I was dismayed to find that the technological efficiency of the Colorado Driver's License program has been downgraded since a couple years ago. Back then, when I went to renew my license, they took my picture, did a little processing, and handed me a freshly printed license after a few short minutes. Now, they just give everybody a crappy little piece of paper to serve as a temporary license, and tell you that your real license will arrive in the mail in a few weeks. Lame.

Well, I'm dying to spend a little time outside before dark, so assuming this rambling syncs up without needing more babysitting, I shall be breathing in a little fresh air promptly.

Gentoo
by Zan Lynx (2004-07-13 08:40)

Welcome to the world of Gentoo goodness, Bitscape!

Apache problems
by Yanthor (2004-07-13 10:44)

Welcome to Gentoo, Bitscape! I'm glad you liked it, I figured you would. BTW, after you did your initial install before you started installing your own packages, did you do a port scan of your new Gentoo box? When I scanned my own new box, not ONE port responded! I love that. My default Redhat install returned on at least 5 ports that I hadn't heard of and had no idea what processes were running on those ports.

Regarding Apache, I had a problem with that during installation because I didn't want to install Apache 2.0. When I did: "emerge apache" it installs Apache 2.0 by default. When I tried to emerge any of the Apache 1.3.x installs, they all broke during compilation! So I finally just installed Apache 1.3.[newest version] from source on my own.

I use Exim and QPopper and both installed without a hitch using emerge, much to my delight, and upgrading them to the newest security bugfix is really easy, just emerge them again.

Which stage of install did you use? Did you compile everything yourself or install some precompiled binaries?

Apache and gentoo
by Bitscape (2004-07-13 11:58)

I just tried installing apache. In order to get apache 1.3 instead of 2.0, I used:

emerge "<apache2.0"

This conveniently gave me the newest available 1.3 release. It compiled fine as far as I could tell, and I started it up.

PHP did trick me a little bit, because the first time, I just tried doing "emerge php", but that didn't get me the php apache module like I thought it would. In order to get what I wanted, I had to run "emerge mod_php". Then add the appropriate LoadModule and AddType commands to apache's conf. Then my little test script ran fine.

I did a stage 1 install, so every package and library on my system has been compiled from scratch, optimized for Athlon XP. It's quite nice. :)

I didn't do a port scan at first, but since you mentioned it, I tried one, and discovered, pretty much like I expected, that stuff I had installed was running. ssh, mail, http. Also, port 6000 (for X protocol) was open. Since I'm behind Illian's firewall, I'm not worried much about it. If I were going to put Argo directly on the net, I'd setup my usual iptables script anyway just to be sure.

Overall, I do like gentoo a lot so far. I sometimes wish there were a little more in the way of instruction/documentation on configuring some of the individual packages. (For example, it would have been nice to have it tell me, "add these lines to httpd.conf to make php run" after it installed, instead of me having to go look it up. But I guess that's why it's not really a beginner's distro.)

Documentation
by Yanthor (2004-07-13 16:08)

Yup, I did a stage 1 install also and I like it that way.

I agree that the documentation is somewhat lacking. When you emerge a new package, at the end it says something like, "Your package was successfully installed, you need to edit new config files in /etc". I WISH it would list the new files, rather than making me figure out which files they are and leaving me wondering whether I found them all.

I installed PHP from source rather than using emerge because of my need to apply my own custom source patch. I wish they made that process easy, since I thought many projects that install from source do so because they are applying custom source patches. Our mailserver at work uses...I think it is 16...custom source patches to our mailserver. They do a number of things like increase security and rudimentary filtering of typical VBScript exploit viruses.

When I get time I'll try what you did with Apache, hopefully it will work. That would be nice because that way it would easily upgrade to the newest security fix releases.

New Files
by Zan Lynx (2004-07-13 22:03)

To see what files a package installed use qpkg -l package

To automatically merge changes to /etc files when portage tells you there are new ones, try etc-update.

Gentoo
by bouncing (2004-07-14 16:57)

Today at work we were getting our server packaged as a gentoo package. Or tarball. Whatever.

Did that use flags action and told emerge that we require Python, twisted, apache2, etc... Works rather nicely.