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The Question of Iraq - What Now?

Started: Saturday, April 10, 2004 18:29

Finished: Saturday, April 10, 2004 19:38

Iraq is now in a state of uproar. While it is easy to dwell on the argument that this entire endeavor was a mistake from the beginning, merely being able to say "I told you so" is a pretty hollow and unsatisfying riff, given the casualties happening on both sides. What we need to do now is move on and address the question of where do we go from here?

Ever since the "liberation" took place, I have maintained that now that the United States has gotten itself involved, we need to stick it out. Though it would be preferable to have more international assistance from other UN countries, it is understandable that they would not be eager to help clean up a mess made with wanton disregard for the voices of the rest of the world. Now that we are there, we should stay there to prevent the country from falling into chaos and civil war.

Now, I find myself re-evaluating the sanity of this position. Suddenly, it appears that the Sunni and Shia have formed a temporary de facto alliance with one another. Their common enemy is the foreign occupier. The United States now finds that its primary function has changed from preventing violent clashes between clans, to quelling popular opposition against the newly imposed regime.

We overthrew the big bad monster of Saddam Hussein. In the wake of the crumbled infrastructure, we maintained some semblence of order. Leaving aside deceptions and mishandling by the administration, there was at least some merit in each of these operations. But what is the merit now?

Is our new mission, as some might suggest, to beat the Iraqi opposition into a bloody pulp until they learn to love their newfound freedom? Should we pull the ground troops out, nuke a few cities, and after enough of the population has been exterminated so as to render the remainder insignificant, then declare victory and sign a treaty with flies buzzing around the oil wells?

Ok, so I jumped into facetious mode for a moment there, but sometimes the absurdity to which the pro-war contingent is willing to stretch its arguments astounds me.

Seriously, what is the best course of action now? If the United States suddenly decides to jump up and withdraw, it's a good bet that the Sunni and Shia wouldn't take long to forget their short-lived pact, and infighting would break out amongst followers of various clerics, warlords, and other charismatic figures. (Honestly, I'm kind of talking out of my ass here, but I think I'm making reasonable guesses. Someone in the thick of it like Salam Pax or Raed would be in a much better position to assess these matters than I.)

I would also suspect the very real possibility that the surrounding neighbors would make land grabs, and try to annex what they could. Turkey has already had its eyes on the northern territory, much to the dismay of the Kurds (the one group that, as I understand it, is still strongly in favor of a continued U.S. presence). Would the rest of the country be split up between a newly expanded Iran, Saudi Arabia, and Syria?

Would such an alternative be superior to the ever more bloody clashes between the Empire and the Rebel Alliance?

I don't know anymore. My opinion doesn't make a shred of difference in national policy decisions anyway. Still, I find it interesting to think about these things. What would I do if I were somehow suddenly thrust into the President's position? What would you do?

No Easy Way Out
by bouncing (2004-04-12 08:17)

There is no easy way out now. If we withdraw, Iraq will almost certainly fall into civil war, which may last for years. Following that, one or two nations would be ruled by dictators what would make us wish Saddam was still in power. They will most certainly have weapons of mass destruction programs, and you can be sure they won't let inspectors in either.

Lately I've been reading up on the Israel-Lebanon war. In 1982, Israwel invaded Lebanon to destroy terrorist organizations working with the Lebanese government to overthrow Israel. These real terrorists should not be confused with Bush's fake terrorists, as Iraq has not been a state sponsor of terror for some time. Until now.

At first, the Israelis were warmly greeted by the Lebanese people who had been living under a repressive totalitarian regime for decades. But before long, as Israel failed to stabilize Lebanon and blood-thursty military leaders like Ariel Sharon bended the rules, even committing atrocities to quell the radical groups, the radical groups become mainstream and Hezbollah was born. Although Israel withdrew from Lebanon after casualties mounted and the army couldn't figure out who to fight, Hezbollah is one of the most powerful and well-funded groups calling for the destruction of Isreal and genocide against its people.

How does this relate to us? Let's learn from Isreal's mistakes. If we withdraw, Iraq will become exactly what President Bush said it was when he lied before Congress and America when calling for war. If we stay, the same outcome is likely. What many retired generals and outside experts have been saying is, the United States needs more troops and needs the support of the Iraqi people.

To get more troops, we'd either have to withdraw from other regions we've been squatting at for decades, we'd have to reinstitute the draft, or we'd have to get other nations to contribute. None of the above are very appealing, and I know if I were drafted to fight in Bush's war, I wouldn't go. If I were the leader of another nation, I would not contribute a single soldier to Bush's war, not while Bush is in office.

John Kerry keeps calling for more international support. Would Lebanon or Vietnam have worked out better if the UN was involved? I doubt that very much. But never the less, I think that's our only option. A formal apology to the world couldn't help in making that a reality. To gain the support of the Iraqi people, we should stop making false promises. From interviews with people in Iraq, you gather that they expected maricles from USA. So did the American people. Why? Again, because Dubya lied about what was and wasn't possible.

Ultimately, there may be no good solution. That is why some of us say, bitterly, "we told you so."

Blame the Iraqis strategy
by Bitscape (2004-04-13 12:01)

Kos is predicting that a pullout might be on the way. Because you just know how much those Iraqi people hate their freedom. ;)

Once America is out, anything that happens there will return to the national blind spot of "foreign stuff that doesn't concern us." That is, until the next terrorist attack hits.

We'll see what happens...

Blaming the Anti-War Group
by bouncing (2004-04-13 12:58)

I would suspect that there would be some blame spread around to the anti-war croud. For not supporting the troops ... enough. That's what the neocons did with Vietnam -- the problem was we weren't waging "enough" war.

Cut and run
by Bitscape (2004-04-15 17:47)

The more I read stuff like this by someone who is actually over there, the more I begin to believe that the ongoing presence of U.S. troops is doing more harm than good.

Yes, we might be preventing civil war, but would that be any worse than the violence occurring now due to our presence? Not only are people getting killed, but resentment against the U.S. continues to build by the day.

Though I'm still not positive, I'm gradually becoming convinced that the "cut and run" strategy might be the best option available at this point.

Oh, and one more thing
by Bitscape (2004-04-15 17:49)

Instead of going on tv and parading around in a display of unparalleled arrogance (referring to the press conference a couple nights ago), our fearless leader needs to issue a formal and public apology to all the Iraqi people, regardless of whether our troops stay there or not. That would at least be a beginning.

Reading Material
by Zan Lynx (2004-04-20 17:46)

"The more I read stuff like this..."

Ah, but is your opinion formed by reality, or distorted by reading only one side of the issue? (and the issue has many more than two sides) Did you form your opinion based on facts, or did you select facts to fit your opinion?

I'm not saying you did or didn't. I'm not sure about my own opinions. What I do know is that each side in an argument knows that they are right, and can PROVE it.

How can that be? Are they lying? Not necessarily. Each side selects the facts they like! They put a higher weight on some than others.

So, how do you know your opinions and your plans of action are correct? How do you know they are better than Bush's? (just to pick someone)

With science, you try it and see what happens. You have objective, repeatable proof your opinion is correct. With politics that isn't possible. There is no going back to try again. The closest we have is history, but no situation ever reoccurs in exactly the same way.

I think we all should make a point of reading and gathering facts from all sides of an issue. That's why I try to provide some interesting links. It isn't just to annoy y'all and cause controversy. :-)

Well, there's some of that too. Heh.

Intellectual Honesty
by bouncing (2004-04-20 21:14)

I think there is an issue of intellectual honesty. The traditional conservative opinion is not to go to war, unless attacked first. Conservatives like Pat Buchanon even oppose the war. But the new Bush drive to war is inconsistant to say the least.

We say we are putting aside short-term interests for long-term world stability. That all nations developing banned weapons, sponsoring terror, and giving others those secrets -- nuclear secrets -- must be invaded, or at least we must deal with these threats.

But we knew, before invading Iraq that it had no ties whatsoever to Al Queda. That is an undeniable fact. We also knew that the world's biggest sponsor of terror, one developing and sharing weapons of mass destruction, was Pakistan. In the spirit of our new anti-terror "crusade", we invaded Iraq and gave billions of dollars to Pakistan.

Was there a more honest argument for taking that action, one that is consistent? Yes, but that's not the argument that has been made for war. Whatever lying there is about the physical is one question. But I cannot believe for a moment that Bush is telling the truth about his motive and phisophy.

Now that the war is a miserable failure in terms of finding WMD's, I'd like to know the real reason we are there.

Fact sources
by Bitscape (2004-04-21 10:06)

Ah, but is your opinion formed by reality, or distorted by reading only one side of the issue? (and the issue has many more than two sides) Did you form your opinion based on facts, or did you select facts to fit your opinion?

This is a worthy question. With regard to Iraq, since I have no way of getting direct first hand information without being there, I rely on second hand info from (1) blogs of people who live there (made possible only in recent times with the web), (2) accounts of journalists on the ground, (3) the "official" word from the national press and government sources (which could be regarderd as one in the same much of the time, since the major news networks rely laregly on military reports for their information).

Generally speaking, my level of trust goes in the order listed. I give the word of ordinary people (like me) whose authenticity has been verified a much greater weight than reports from the government and media. Each of them do have their own biases of course, which must also be accounted for, but in terms of facts, I'll take the word of Salam Pax or Riverbend over a Pentagon press release every time.

During wartime, the military has a long history of not telling the whole story until long after the fact. At best, they filter information to prevent word about the severity of the situation from reaching home. At worst, lies and gross distortions occur on a mass scale. This is nothing new. There is nothing to indicate that this war is any different, except perhaps that information can now quickly spread by the net and other means, creating a disincentive to create too much deception for fear of losing credibility.

If there are some sources reporting facts from the ground in Iraq who happen to have a more conservative/pro-Bush bias, I'd love to hear them too. People from this side of the pond may have some good insights, but everybody over here (myself included) isn't really able to do any more than regurgitate and pass on what has already been reported by other sources.

But anyway, I would agree that the more sources of information there are to draw from, the better.